More info on IMU training camp pics

Folks below is some information provided by readers in relation to the IMU training camp photos.

What follows first is a contribution as to  what weaponry materials etc are in the pictures, courtesy of a reader from Europe.

The second lot is some info about the photos themseleves.

Thank you very much to  to the readers who were gracious enough to take the time to pull together this material. I really appreciate it.

I can’t figure out how to get the photos back in here so you’ll all have to make do with the link back to the other post, sorry. Photos can be found here http://allthingscounterterrorism.com/2011/06/12/photos-from-imu-training-camp-in-pakistan-apparently/

Ok onto  the information from the photos graciously provided by Janos.

Assault rifles

  • AK-74 with a GP-30 grenade launcher (grenades on the mat; it was designed to defeat body armor and uses other ammo than the usual AKs)
  • AKS-74U (the compact gun with the foldable stock)
  • G3 (it is in the Pakistani Army’s inventory, but is locally produced on license)
  • AK-47 of various types (AKMS, Romanian PM md. 63 and probably others)

Light machine guns:

  • RPK machine gun
  • PKM machine gun

Heavy machine guns:

  • DShK heavy machine gun (good old model, first produced in the 1930s, probably has some local producers)
  • MG-1 machine gun (it is in the Pakistani Army’s inventory)

Anti-tank/material:

  • RPG-7
  • RPG-22
  • Type 56 recoilles rifle (Chinese copy of the obsolete American M20)
  • Type 63 or 81 or maybe some other type of SBRL (hard to tell, the picture is too small)
  • B10 recoilles rifle (I’m not sure about this though)
  • AGS-17 automatic grenade launcher (Russian made)

Equipment and uniforms

The people on the pictures wear all (with one exception) are wearing M81 Woodland camo, which is US made, but out of services (SOF forces are said to still use it and Probably the Navy, according to Wikipedia :) ). This camo was and is used by the ANA, so probably there’s surplus of those around there. The single guy, who doesn’t wear M81 wears US style chocolate chip camo (also obsolete today). Interesting, but they don’t wear any tactical gear. And interesting feat is the skirt like thing they’re wearing on some of the pictures. There seems to be a no boot policy: everyone I looked at is wearing some kind of training shoes (many of them white which isn’t exactly the best color in that environment). Also interesting to note, that on a few pictures the weapons are laid on a mat which has current US Army camo color (ACU). The camo of the vehicle on one of the pictures is also interesting, seems they don’t have camo nets, which are used for this. Also the masks aren’t uniform: there are guys wearing robes. Interesting is, that there are guys in civilian.

Training

As to the pictures: the PT looks a bit strange it isn’t what one would look. The pictures are not surprisingly concentrating on marksmanship, weapons familiarization and training, navigation, camouflaging, marching and parading and improvised munitions. Also interesting what we don’t see: group movements and tactical training. The pictures are concentrating on the “cool” stuff, and try to create an air of professionalism and an organized “army” (and one some pictures they are outright posing for the camera with the guns, my favorite picture is nr. 65 where the guy on the left side would loose some teeth if he would fire his weapon and the guy in the middle would shoot the photographer).

I could identify the the two way radio on picture 10. It is a Chinese made commerically available model alled ICOM  V8.

http://qzweitai208.en.made-in-china.com/product/pqkJWDuUvihT/China-Two-Way-Radio-ICOM-V8-.html

On the 107 mm projectiles, these pictures are better than the previous ones:

http://ordatamines.maic.jmu.edu/displaydata.aspx?OrDataId=1274

Plus some pictures of captured weapons in 2009:

http://www.aaj.tv/operation/images/image-gallery/65_OprImg.jpg

from here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/37723-operation-south-waziristan-military-pictures-8.html

and

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt24/owais24/swa29.jpg

from here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/37723-operation-south-waziristan-military-pictures-3.html

The DShK variant and the 107 mm rockets seem to be a regular part of the arsenal over there. I think the 107 mm rockets are a kind of heritage from the mujahedeen era. Mohammad Yousaf wrote in his book (I’ve got the 2009 copy) that they got and used the SBRL from China (page 150 in my copy).

And I found an interesting video about the use of the rockets in Iraq.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og7KRzBY4hs&feature=player_embedded

It seems that the Iraqis had more experience in using these rockets.

Picture 6

The stuff on the map was a binocular and a laser rangefinder of the following types:

Barska optics 7×50 mm binocular waterproof, floating (Battalion)

The manufacturer’s homepage:

http://www.barska.com/Battalion_Binoculars-BARSKA_7x50_WP_FLOATING_Battalion_w_Rangefinder.html

A price for the binocular:

http://www.binoculars.com/binoculars/marine-binoculars/7x50wpinternalrangefindercompassindivfocus.cfm

All in all, looks like a serious piece of equipment, with built in range finder and compass. Like in the movies.

Bushnell elite 1500 rangefinder

The manufacturer’s homepage:

http://www.bushnell.com/products/rangefinders/Elite-1500/205100/?CFID=18553810&CFTOKEN=a8ef47fabec7aa3d-01BF3CE2-B219-7BC6-8A250D362BC462AE

A price for the range finder:

http://www.opticsplanet.net/bushnell-elite-1500-laser-rangefinder.html

I’m a bit puzzled about how they utilized this piece of equipment in the training. Though great for measuring distance, they guys on pictures looked more in need of serious basic training, than the use of such devices (which might come handy on surveillance missions though).

And there is the commercial GPS receiver from Garmin.

Rino 120

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=6405&ra=true

Etrex vista

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=163

Interesting stuff.

The Pakistanis are license building many weapons, including some of the famous Heckler and Koch weapons. This includes the local variant of the G3 and the MG3.
G3P4 (pic 84, first guy):

http://www.pof.gov.pk/IW_autorifles.aspx

MG-3 (pic 8 and 95):

http://www.pof.gov.pk/IW_MG3.aspx

As I’ve already speculated about in my previous letter, the Soviet DShK heavy machine gun has indeed a local copy (and there’s probably a Chinese, maybe an Iranian variant):

12.7 MM Type 54 (pic 47, 48, 101)

http://www.pof.gov.pk/IW_MG12_7MM.aspx

I don’t know who made the one on the picture, there are many possibilities.

The Pakistanis are also making ammo (probably in large quantities, pic 46):

http://www.pof.gov.pk/AAC12_7_108mm.aspx

On hand of these pictures I cannot say that the ammo in the DShK is of Pakistani origin, but could be.

The automatic grenade launcher AGS-17 (pic 42, 45 and 49):

http://world.guns.ru/grenade/rus/ags-17-e.html

Type 56 recoilless rifle (pic 17, 40 and 41 on the tripod):

http://www.china-defense-mashup.com/chinas-arsenal/chinese-infantry-heavy-weapon-small-arms

My guess on the SBML is the 107 mm Chinese made Type 63 or 81 Rocket Launcher or maybe a similar Iranian system? (pic 27):

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/type-63-r.htm

of interest on this topic is the following forum entry:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?85112-Wanted-Pic-of-Russian-BM1-Rocket

I liked the picks about how the mujahedeen used those launchers.

RPG-22 (pic 20)

http://world.guns.ru/grenade/rus/rpg-22-e.html

(Interesting to note, that this weapon system isn’t produced since 1993, and the source above says it was only Russian and post Soviet states stocks; it must have had an interesting journey down to Pakistan.) It is also very similar to the US M72 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m72.htm).

I’m not sure on this one, but I guess this the other recoilless rifle is a Chinese made Type 65 recoilless rifle (pic 40 and 41 on the without tripod, and shoulder fired on pic 43 and 44):

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/crewserved/type78recoillessgun120mm.asp

Which is seems is copied from Russian B10:

http://books.google.hu/books?id=-5Rbaz0zuz8C&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=%22Type+65%22+recoilless+gun&source=bl&ots=oDWIqQ2iJq&sig=e5vZFmkoxgZRmldGmKhE4BIcAuw&hl=hu&ei=ro3_TafVOcT2sgaIp-zvDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CFIQ6AEwBTgU#v=onepage&q=%22Type%2065%22%20recoilless%20gun&f=false

At this point I should note, that copies of weapons are pretty common around there, so some of the Kalashnikovs might be Chinese or other copies (very hard to tell, and I’m no expert) and also the light machine guns RPG-7 might also be a copy.

A few words to the question of uniforms. The ANA has received most of its uniforms from the US and other allies, and most of its uniforms are the M81 color camo, phased out by the US at the beginning of the decade. In the mean time tough the ANA has begun to field its own camo (digital pattern just like the new US uniforms). So I guess there are a lot of M81 uniforms floating around, and maybe there are some local producers. A few pics about the uniforms:

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt104/vor033/Afghan%20National%20Army/5-24.jpg

Uniform patterns:

http://www.battlefront.com/resources/poc/america_north/america_north_us.html

I was interested in the Romanian AKs. I could only dig up the information here about Romanian weapons donations to Afghanistan:

A picture about those PM md 65s in Iraq (pic 68, the nearest with front grip):

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28610

This is the tricky part, that I only found one source about Romanian weapons donation:

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09267.pdf (page 34)

So I’m not sure if they are authentic Romanian rifles, but look that way.

And last but not least a nice video about Pakistani do it yourself gunsmiths:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30Q6S7WLeiA

I’m sure you know it, I think it would be just great for the post.

Last but not least a funny pic: the RPM is not a crew served weapon, but they use it this way in this pic (http://allthingsct.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/talimgoh-7.jpg). It is funny, because the ammo box is still on the gun, but they simply took the ammo belt out and fire like it was a heavy mg. An alternative explanation would be, that the box is defect, but I think it is simply posing.

Some interesting things. There’re some white clad guys without masks (pic 60 and 87). On pic 67 the guys wear robes and not masks. (Could be they previous guys in civilian?)

PHOTOGRAPH INFORMATION, which is  graciously provided by another reader from North America. Thank you!

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